Feeding and eating is a realm of family life that changes as kids get older, which is easy for some parents and more difficult for others. What does empowerment and leadership look like as teens eat more socially and have more time away from the home? How can parents be a healthy part of a teen’s relationship with food? In this episode two of Opal’s Co-Founders, Julie Church, RDN, CD and Kara Bazzi, LMFT, CEDS offer invitations for parents to trust, talk and support their teens, using some of Ellyn Satter’s materials to guide what is most important in the parent and teen feeding relationship.
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Thank you to our team…
Editing by David Bazzi
Music by Aaron Davidson: https://soundcloud.
Sound engineering by Ayesha Ubayatilaka at Jack Straw Studios
Transcription by Rev.com
Kara Bazzi (00:06):
Hello and welcome to the Appetite, a podcast brought to you by Opal Food and Body Wisdom and Eating Disorder Treatment Clinic in Seattle, Washington. It is a podcast about all things food, body movement, and mental health. And I am your host for today. My name’s Kara Bazzi, I’m the clinical director and one of the co-founders of Opal. And today I get have a conversation with one of my other co-founders, Julie Church, registered dietitian and one of the owners of Opal and a regular on the appetite. So we are going to be having a conversation today. Hi Julie. Hi. Hi. So it’s really fun always to have Julie on the episode as a registered dietician and talking about relationship to food. And today the two of us are going to be talking about food as it relates to parenting kids and the developmental stage of what the difference is between parenting young children around relationship to food and what happens or what might change as they get older and go into adolescent and teen years.
(01:09):
And we are going to be answering the question of whether we do any kind of adjustment in the way that we approach our parenting as it relates to food. So great person Julie, to be talking about this topic. And we’ll start with Julie just giving us a refresher from things that have been in past episodes related to the how of eating and the work that we have developed in relationship to Ellyn Satter. So Julie, can you start us off with talking about a framework for things we’ve already talked about on this episode to launch from?
Julie Church (01:46):
Yes, I would love to. I think that the topic today, I think you’re also going to hear Kara and I bringing in some of our own personal aspects of this because we both are parenting teens right now. And so recognizing that aspect of also bringing in not just my hat as a dietician, but also my hat as a parent. And yes, I think a lot of opal’s food philosophy was formulated by my own career development and my understanding around nutrition and what I thought was helpful for adults and families. And one of my main teachers in that from afar was Ellyn Satter, who is a dietician and a social worker. And most of her research and writing has been mostly the focal point of family feeding. One of her main publications that people have been very, very familiar with and has been broadly used in the public health setting even is the division of responsibility.
(02:43):
And that division of responsibility is just speaking to what is the responsibility of a kid and what’s the responsibility of the parent or the caregiver in the feeding relationship. So Satter will give sort of guidance from birth until launch into adolescence and adulthood and what that role is and the basics of that division of responsibility is that the parents’ responsibility in the feeding relationship is to be responsible for what the when and the where of eating and feeding and the child is responsible for the how much or whether or not they’re going to eat the foods that have been served. So what so much of Satter’s work comes back to and especially the part of her work that we especially resonate with is this belief that our kids and the kids at early phases of life, their bodies work and that we as parents, our main role is just to move them back to trusting their bodies and leading into all the actual natural functions and connecting and having that embodiment of going, oh, that feeling I have in my head or my stomach or my chest could be hunker, could be fullness and recognizing, building their competency in that
Kara Bazzi (04:03):
Way. I noticed, Julie, as you say this, just how challenging it is to believe that that could be true, that we could trust our kids in how much they’re eating. And I imagine listeners, this might all sound good and well to this division of responsibility, but I imagine there’s a lot of skepticism and just impractical speaking, does this actually work? Can we really trust our kids to make those kinds of decisions? So
Julie Church (04:32):
Yeah, that is usually one of the reasons that folks and parents won’t necessarily fully lean into Satter’s division of responsibility because they still want to have parameters around how much a child has to eat. So even if a parent is responsible, again, review what, when and where. So that means you’re coming to a family meal, they’re deciding, the parent is deciding what’s being cooked and when it’s being cooked and where they’re going to eat it, right? So okay, they’re going to have chicken casserole and dinner’s at five 30 and it’s going to be at the kitchen table. Then the child gets to do the eating part of it. So we as a parent gets to do the feeding part of it. And I think then so much pull, I think societal pressures and messages around what our role as a parent is supposed to be in this whole thing is that then we also give, we’re supposed to, I think, give this parameter around how much they’re supposed to eat,
Kara Bazzi (05:31):
How much, so can you give examples of how does that show up where parents try to jump in and control essentially how much they’re eating?
Julie Church (05:39):
Yeah. Well, it would be maybe even the method of a parent serves the child, the plate of how much food is on their plate and then expects them to finish it. So clean your plate club kind of idea. So that would not be aligned with this division of responsibility because the child then didn’t get to sort of plate their food and decide how much, and they’re going to eat according to Satter, they’re going to listen to their body and they’re going to eat how much of whatever component of the foods appealing to them. She also leans heavily into enjoyment and pleasure. Serve the foods that you enjoy, eat the foods you enjoy, enjoying the foods that you enjoy. And I think that sometimes parents want a child to enjoy all components of the meal and to say, no, no, no, you need to have your vegetables before you get your dessert or you have to eat all of your vegetables before you get more of another component of a meal. And that again, would be not in line with this division of responsibility. What that’s enforcing is like you as a parent not trusting the child is really attuned with their pleasure and their appetite and interrupts that. So you’re doing in that role that parent is doing much more than the what, when and where. They’re also then almost dictating the actual eating and interfering with
Kara Bazzi (07:02):
That. And I know that isn’t the topic we’re discussing today, but that’s a great overview of what the division of responsibility is. And I know we have episodes earlier that do reference Ellyn Satter’s work and we’ve also done a series called Body Talk with great conversations that you could look up online if you’re interested in looking at that part of the relationship. But today we’re talking about what shifts happen over time in the roles of the parent as our children are going into adolescence. And as we know that this is a time that kids are getting more independent and we’re working towards launching them into adulthood. So that is what’s happening, that’s normal, that’s supposed to be happening, but how does that show up with food? And then clarifying and understanding what our roles are in that process. So that’s where we’re going next.
Julie Church (07:56):
And I think the idea of this division of responsibility is to hopefully develop eaters that can be independent and take care of themselves. And Ellyn Satter uses the phrase competent eaters and her research body of research has shown that having this structure, the division of responsibility structure does create more competent eaters. And I just believe that so much is because you’re putting the autonomy onto the kid and developing their trust in their own bodies. So I think that the ultimate, when we’re kind of in this teen phase and thinking about them having that beginning of more and more autonomy and as a parent getting to see more of their abilities and areas of growth also is that we’re wanting to continue to have them be able to be launched as competent eaters and be able to feed themselves when we’re not around
Kara Bazzi (08:57):
Because the big change, Julie, we both have teens, let’s talk about all the things that have changed with their independence and then how that affects food and eating. So let’s throw out examples. I can give you one going right away
(09:11):
From my daughter going from middle school to high school. She started school an hour and a half earlier. I want to say she’s out the door before I get out of bed, so I’m not even seeing her in the morning and pretty sure that she takes a bar to school for breakfast and eats it in the car and sometimes doesn’t bring a bar to breakfast. And has she packed a lunch the night before? I dunno because I’m not out of bed yet. So there’s one example school often for high schoolers. The earlier time was for real in my household. What other examples of just changes in adolescence?
Julie Church (09:51):
So I have the middle schooler. So then in that realm there is just the afterschool time that I think of. So there’s just more freedoms, more ability to just take the city bus home or go to a friend’s or kind of have a window of a few hours that is unsupervised. And so that has led to going to local establishments. So that’s the coffee, like what the coffee shops, like the gas stations, the grocery stores, and then kids getting to find a way to get the food they want or have the snack that they want and that independence. So I think those two things. And then it comes to just at least I think it’s fairly common that as the kids grow up, there’s busyness that increases. So it could be because there’s other kids in the family that are also pulling the parents in different directions. And then I think with that autonomy, I think sometimes also parents are like, oh, look at that. I can also do something after and my kids are okay at home. You don’t have to rush home to the five-year-old and be caring for them. It’s like, oh, they’re fine. And so then it becomes 9:00 PM and oh wait, I didn’t get home yet. So I think there’s just a lot more space for these kids to have to navigate it on their own
Kara Bazzi (11:04):
And when they’re on their own, just to bring in another element is they might be purchasing food outside of the home a lot more. And I know that’s been a common conversation in our house about spending money on food, the budget and budgeting and are we having her pay for her extras? And there’s a lot of interest in going to get coffee now as a teenager and how much coffee costs and the social activities with it and all the things, the money side of it, the independent side of it. So now if we circle back to what does this mean, Julie for our work is what is our role and where might parents actually get really nervous about this and how could
Julie Church (11:48):
We
Kara Bazzi (11:50):
Frame that for folks?
Julie Church (11:51):
Yeah, I think that one places that we haven’t mentioned or one of the places that the parents get the most nervous I think in modern day is about what is the child choosing based on its nutritional value? So what is its nutrient profile? And I think if parents have a fear around that of like, oh, I don’t want my kids to eat too much fat, too much sugar, too many carbs, too many calories, I don’t know, what’s the other metrics, too many too manys. Then they get fearful of what the kids are going to be choosing on their own outside of their home because hey, whoa, they’re not in charge of all the what anymore. And Ellyn Satter will say that as the division of responsibility shifts in adolescence, part of the parent’s role is gradually teaching the child to be able to do the what, the when and the where. And I think the challenges of continuing to offer family meals and structures around food and eating so that the kids can know that they will be reliably fed still since they are still in the home and dependent on parents and figuring out the ways that a parent can be more of a leader and an empowerer in the feeding relationship and letting go so that the kids can be out in the world and make the decisions they need to about what the when and the where.
Kara Bazzi (13:18):
I notice one of my sources of some tension is what I said earlier with often Sophia’s bringing a bar to school or maybe I don’t even know if she’s not even bringing anything. And so a lot of kids are athletes and she’s training and she’s in track season right now. What would you say for the parent in that regard of in so many ways? I think she is finding times in her day to get nourished, but that early, we always hear that early that breakfast is important to keep the person nourished and their brain working and all the functioning. So
Julie Church (13:59):
I do think that helping kids understand that to be able to have the what when they want it, there has to be some planning and they have to learn from their own experiences. And so I think that our parents, our role as a parent is still doing some of that. What are the things that work for them to take that are quick or easy, tasty to them and then they still get to make the decision if they take that five seconds to grab it and put it in their bag or have a backup supply of things in their backpack or figure out their methods. And I think that I can hear from you, Kara and I have heard over time that that’s a hard thing to let go of, to say, okay, I have a parent have done enough, I’ve provided the food in the household or I’ve given them the access to the money to get what they need. And if they still are maybe not always nourishing themselves perhaps as regularly or maybe as adequately in the ways that maybe you would want, it’s like, okay,
Kara Bazzi (15:00):
Let it go,
Julie Church (15:01):
Let it go, let it go,
Kara Bazzi (15:02):
Let it go.
Julie Church (15:02):
As long as they’re still thriving. And obviously if there’s a concern around disordered eating or restriction in that way, of course that’s a whole conversation. We’re not necessarily going to get into that, but we are kind of making this umbrella statement about this particular episode of saying understanding that they are thriving and doing okay and well,
Kara Bazzi (15:25):
That can give us the invitation to let go. And I would say from other areas where I get worried and I keep lecturing for all of you that have teenage kids, obviously we know it doesn’t work. Doubling down on the teenage kid is pretty much a recipe for rebellion. So I have to catch myself all the time and I screw up all the time of if that lecture comes out of my mouth. But I think from the place of having some self-compassion, we care about our kids, we want them to be well and so it comes from a good spot, but the lecture, the doubling down doesn’t work.
Julie Church (16:05):
Yeah. And I think your heart in that is that you just want to make sure that they have as much as they want when they want it. So back to the same division responsibility, you’ve maybe seen your daughter at those meal times in her growing up, eat enough and have enough and you just want to make sure that she’s in these other moments outside of this, it gets to feed herself and be satisfied. I think that that’s part of it’s like, wait, are you going hungry? Just out of a lack of
Kara Bazzi (16:34):
Planning,
Julie Church (16:34):
Responsibility and planning.
Kara Bazzi (16:35):
Yeah, planning
Julie Church (16:36):
And I will say this to my adult clients as a dietician too and kind of offer a lot of compassion is just like, yeah, feeding ourselves takes a lot of work and for some of us it brings more joy and for others it’s more functional and more tedious. And so I think we start to see that for our kids who maybe is going to be more exciting and fun to think about it and others that are more spontaneous and going to just be in the moment. So
Kara Bazzi (17:04):
Can we talk about that a bit? What is the work the parents still are doing until their kids are launched and where do we need to let go? What are all the places of letting go? That’s a great example. You’re sharing with my daughters. She does have access to food. She could grab something. I have done my job of there is food in the cupboard in the fridge for her, but what other things can we do? And I think you’re totally right that it brings different people joy, to be perfectly honest, I don’t enjoy the grocery shopping, but that is my responsibility, is my husband’s is to have food access. So are
Julie Church (17:44):
Okay. So I think that the, so that actually having the food around within your means and figuring out how to do that and that meets the economic budget of your own family system or all of that. And then I think that the conversations that we have beyond that are also really important. So I just think, okay, so you’re aware that that box of bars that you bought are still, we’re going to hone in on this example I
Kara Bazzi (18:12):
Think
Julie Church (18:13):
Because you put it out there first, but if you have that box in the cabinet and you realize it’s kind of still there and it’s still full and you’re like, interesting, okay, I don’t think she’s taking many, she didn’t take many this week or last week. What does it look like to bring, to just say, Hey, how’s that going? Do we have what you need? When do you find yourself really being interested in food, maybe distracted by hunger at that time? What would sound good? I don’t know. I just think not honing in and doubling down when maybe you want to be critical about it of you didn’t do it, it’s shaking the finger. It’s more what are you learning about yourself as an eater and where are you finding that you’re more drawn to getting food and do you have access to food at that moment? I just think of if it’s in the middle of science period at 11:00 AM then you’re just distracted and that’s no fun, but maybe it works for her. Maybe it’s right at lunchtime and there she gets to go and find a bunch of food and it’s fine. So I’m just wondering if you’ve had those conversations. I think
Kara Bazzi (19:13):
So. We also can differentiate what works for one person might not work for the other. And I think that’s something as a parent to be aware of is my style of eating and my regularity. I don’t need to project that on everyone in my family. And I think to what you said earlier was really helpful of is my kid thriving? And if we have worry about their patterns around eating to ask some of those questions so we can understand more what’s going on for them, not for us
Julie Church (19:41):
If there’s actually something to be worried about.
Kara Bazzi (19:42):
Yeah, I love that.
Julie Church (19:43):
I know, and I recognize with my middle schooler still, he doesn’t get up with a ton of time to get to the bus. And so yeah, if I am down there in the kitchen and doing my thing with my other kids or myself feeding myself and I’m having my cereal, I’ll take a Ziploc bag and put some cereal in it and put it on the kitchen counter. A thing that he’ll do is grab some dry cereal on the way out and sure I am helping. I’m taking steps to show that. And what’s been interesting, a couple days ago I noticed that there was the open bag of cereal, not a Ziploc, but the bag from the box, so the open bag of cereal on the counter close to the drawer where the Ziploc bags were and then a bunch of cereal all over the counter. And I was like, oh, you know what? I bet he tried to put cereal in his Ziploc to leave the house with. And I was like, oh great,
(20:43):
That’s awesome. He had maybe enough time to try to do that for himself because for whatever, we weren’t around to help him and I wasn’t happy I had to clean up that mess and such. I would prefer that he would do that, but what ifs? I was thankful to see that he was doing that on his own. And then I think in terms of the pattern of hunger, it’s been, yes, I would be more of an instant breakfast eater, so I’m also needing to understand his appetite’s not as alive and well. And there’s a lot of things that make him feel more nauseous in the morning, so he’s just having to figure that out. So I think, and then to be able to see his more afternoon eating and the way that he’s navigated that with friends, I’m recognizing, okay, and he’s been growing well definitely hit puberty and that stride and I’m like, okay, his body has got the nutrition to grow and so great.
Kara Bazzi (21:35):
You know what I love actually about what you’re saying that is kind of taking that moment to observe our patterns and again, with some of that curiosity of what do we notice they generally tend to do? Do they just kind of have some limited things for breakfast because their hunger cues aren’t that online? And just taking that moment to see the arc of it over time again and not assuming their eating patterns would be similar to ours. I really like that as a place that we can pay some attention to. And then if we see that they’re thriving, great. And then maybe if we know there’s maybe areas that the structure or the planning isn’t in place, how do we adjust another funny, your example, I just have to say this, it’s funny about the baggies is
Julie Church (22:31):
So not eco-friendly,
Kara Bazzi (22:33):
But when you’re run out of ’em we are right now, that actually makes it difficult to bring things to school. That’s because then they’re trying to get creative like, mom, I guess we’ll use the tinfoil, or how do we even get this food to the school? And I’m like, I’m sorry, we got to go get baggies. Put that on the grocery list. I know they’re not, I don’t know. But that’s part of even the packing materials, all those things, all the things that go into it.
Julie Church (23:01):
It’s good. It’s good. Yes, they’re probably not as, at least I find they’re not as into the lunch pail right now as my elementary kids, so they’re less apt to have a whole lunch pail full of food. Although I think I do know of kids their age that are that robust in their planning and packing, but
(23:21):
Not my child, so not my mother. And I think maybe somebody is super organized and loves that stuff. There’s so many cool organizational food packing things that are out there that you can get at stores now that are Amazon or whatever that I think for certain kids they might be super into using. So it encourages that. I think one of the things we’re broadly talking about right now is snacking. And I do think that there is the role of the parent to both provide some structure that helps them do that and also the autonomy to make their own decisions. And I would say within the snacking is that, I don’t know if, I mean I think diet culture tends to want to have a lot more parameters and criticism around snacking. And so I guess I would just say parents out there encourage snacking, let the child, that is the time when they’re probably most attuned to when they’re hungry and let them go and get the food.
(24:15):
And I think that’s where then it’s going to be maybe in the household or at a friend’s or at a store. I get that. But yeah, just importance that we have a positive energy around snacks so that the kids do. I think especially snacking oftentimes is things that don’t require a lot of cooking preparation and kitchen skills and cooking skills. And I think that’s meets sort of the preteen teen zone in terms of what they can or can’t feed themselves. And so I’ve always learned that we all want to be independent and be able to get things for ourselves. And so I think for that age, they’re pretty proud of themselves. I think that they can figure out a snack on their own and we want to encourage them.
Kara Bazzi (25:01):
I know you and I talked the other day about the dynamic when our kids are getting home, maybe especially in high school from sport practice, they’ve now just used their body a lot in practice and then maybe dinner isn’t ready for a while. That happens a lot in my house and that moment of the snacking of coming home, being ready to eat immediately, but hey, dinner is not, we are not ready. We do not have it served at the table when they are arriving home from sport practice. That’s pretty impossible. So could you speak to that
Julie Church (25:34):
Yeah.
Kara Bazzi (25:35):
Situation, because assuming that’s really common.
Julie Church (25:37):
I know, I know. So I think there’s multiple different ways to approach that and I think that in one household, different things are going to happen on different days. And I would say that if there is, well, one of the other aspects El Satter really leans into heavily is still having that structure of family meals at some level. And we can talk about that in a little bit, but let’s say you are knowing that there’s going to be a family meal that night and you’re in the midst of preparing that. You sort of have a goal of like, yep, it’s probably going to be ready in 30 minutes or whatever. Then recognizing that it’s okay to let the child have some snack, but if you’re going to, I would say it’s also okay to provide the boundary that they can’t just raid the whole kitchen and eat till fullness when you’re about to prepare this nice.
(26:30):
I mean even if it’s not nice, whatever, a warm meal to sit down and eat together with. And so I think figuring out that balance, and I know I tell my kids often is like, okay, the snacking is stopping now because food is going to be ready. I hear that you’re hungry and I am feeding you soon, so go do something else. And I think it’s also an okay skill to have for a kid to build a tolerance of hunger and an understanding trust that I can be fed and I can tolerate some of this because that also just leads to an ability even as a young, I dunno, what does it lead to? I was thinking of a new career out there coming home from work and it’s like, okay, I can feed myself in 30 minutes and I can cook myself my meal.
(27:18):
And I think it just builds in this toleration of hunger. So what do you think about that though? Is that hard? I think that’s probably hard and different for different people. I have comfort level putting that boundary up and maybe it’s some of, because of Ellyn Satter’s, I think I let my kids have a lot more access to food in between meals and snacks than a lot of her guidelines are. She’s pretty strict on it. I’ve always let more freedom with snacking in between meals and snacks and anything I’m serving to the family. But when there’s a moment I’m like, I know it’s okay to have a boundary around this. So I do.
Kara Bazzi (27:56):
Yeah, I think in our family, I recognize one of my daughters is a much bigger snacker, and then the other one naturally does seem to, I mean she’ll snack after school, but she seems to have just more time in between eating experiences. But the one that’s a snacker, I have noticed there have been times of setting the boundary of like, yes, I imagine you’re really hungry, so have something to just get the edge off. But I have said to her like, okay, let’s pause that for now because about to have this we’re we’re going to eat together tonight and we’re going to have a good dinner, so just wait both. Yeah. But we also have a lot more access and trust with the snacking. The one that’s more of a snacker too, the one that doesn’t have much of an appetite in the morning. So in some ways I’m like, I think just a lot. She gets a lot of her feeding in the second half of the day, honestly.
Julie Church (28:55):
Yeah. Yeah. Another thing to consider when thinking about if a kid is wanting to have a snack is, yeah, when we go out to a restaurant, we get an appetizer. And so you could also be cooking the thing, but then be mindful of what you might want out to have as an appetizer. And I find myself sometimes wanting to stay within the theme. So if I’m having tacos or something, then it’s like, okay, here’s the chips and salsa guac or whatever. Yes, have some of that. Or if it’s more pasta E or something, I’ll put some cheese and crackers out or something and I will encourage them to sit there, be with me that’s kind of connecting, be in the same zone of the house. And then they’re both getting some of their needs met in terms of their appetite. And it feels like I think about it like, oh, that’s great, they’re getting cheese.
(29:44):
That’s awesome. That’s really nourishing. Good fat, good protein, yay. And then thinking about how that’s going to influence their appetite as they move into the meal. And I think knowing, yeah, I dunno. I think of also my middle schooler who I can’t help but share this story in this episode is that after school at this local grocery store, if you get the French loaf of bread after 4:00 PM and it’s not hot, it’s free. And he gets out of school 3 45 and so he goes over there and he’s not hot and he goes to the register a lot of days and gets his french loaf. I’ve had neighbors people be like, I saw him at the bus stop with a whole loaf of french bread. I’m like, absolutely. Any who?
Kara Bazzi (30:31):
And this is his favorite fruit, right? Julie listeners Bread
Julie Church (30:35):
And oranges,
Kara Bazzi (30:35):
This is his favorite food.
Julie Church (30:37):
It’s awesome. It’s awesome. I mean he definitely dressed up as a french loaf of bread for Halloween for sure. So it might be a part of his identity. I mean maybe a little bit more than it needs to be anyways. But I was just
Kara Bazzi (30:49):
Thinking, I bought him french bread for a birthday present with oil.
Julie Church (30:53):
Okay, fine, whatever. We could go on and on. But I just think it’s awesome. And then I am aware of that of going, that was like a hefty snack and he’ll save it and put it in his bag or he’ll eat some whatever. But I think that then I’m aware what he might want to eat in the meal might have, he might not want the rice that I’m going to make. I’m very aware of that. He just had a huge amount of bread. I think just having awareness of all the different ways that the kids are going to satisfy the things that are enjoyable to them and what their appetite was asking for at certain times in the day, and then how that influences what foods they might choose to eat when we’re actually together.
Kara Bazzi (31:33):
Totally cool.
Julie Church (31:35):
Yes.
Kara Bazzi (31:35):
Well, and you wanted to say maybe a bit more about those, the togethers time. Would you want to share a bit more about those family meals and things that listeners can think about in this time of having teens?
Julie Church (31:46):
Yeah, so there is still a lot of research around family meals and just how much that really gives a good grounding to being a healthy adult. So if we are going to continue even in this phase to continue to advocate for that family time and within a family meal structure, I guess I just want to emphasize that that does, I think, communicate to the kiddo that there still is a value in the family. And so bringing folks together, kind of sitting together, facing each other, having the same food. So that is something to keep in mind that often to not be the short order cook, not have eight different things that they’re eating, but generally speaking, that family meal is connecting when we get to eat the same foods together. I think I’ve emphasized enjoyment enough, but I can’t, let me, I’ll say it one more time, but just making sure that there’s food that is enjoyable, but recognizing you’re not going to please every eater at the table, every meal.
(32:38):
So yes, you might have one that’s a meal that’s a bit more enjoyable for somebody in your family. Maybe it’s you tonight and maybe it’s tomorrow the next day and that others might just kind of get through it and eat something, but it might not be their favorite, favorite food. No need to be serving favorite food every day. And then also recognize that to make sure that if you’re not serving favorite foods all the time, that you might need to serve some staples that then everybody is able to nourish themselves well through that. And I’ve always loved that about Satter’s guidelines is like have some bread or have rice or tortillas or whatever it might be as your staple available so that if the food that you’re serving isn’t super satisfying to everybody, they can always go for that and be filled up with that.
(33:23):
And I think, I can’t emphasize enough, especially on the podcast and the work that we do is that parents that ask us that you sit down and eat also and that there’s no diet talk, just that there isn’t negativity about the food or any type of judgment around what it’s made of or what it might do to our bodies or our appearance, but rather that we are sitting together just to have, and again, it could be very short, it could be eight minutes that we’re all actually sitting there together. And maybe this is a moment just to say that this is a place where wherever our cooking abilities are as adults and the parents in the household or the caregivers, that we can start to invite our kids into that if they haven’t been already in their younger years to just say, Hey, alright, we’re making this frozen pizza. I’m going to let you do it. Or I’m boiling water to make the noodles. I’m going to, let’s do the steps together. And I think recognizing that then when you’re out of the house and they want to make themselves the mac and cheese, they do have the skill to do so. So I think don’t miss out that this, if not even earlier than this, but definitely by now to be able to give yourself the opportunity to guide them and teach them in knowing how to make the family foods.
Kara Bazzi (34:33):
Yeah. One of the things we started doing during COVID was those family meal kit things that we’ve gotten from those companies. And what I found is that it does allow me with my kids and my husband to be in the kitchen together doing the steps. So we might be like, okay, Sophia, you do step three, I’ll do step two. And we kind divvy it up, but then they’re learning the skills of chopping and all the things when we’re right there, which has been pretty an unexpected cool thing.
Julie Church (35:01):
Yeah, I think it’s great. What do you feel like that’s a lot to
Kara Bazzi (35:06):
Say. I love that. I love some of those guiding maybe ideas for a family meal, things for listeners to be thinking about, and I love just sort of this permission of what it actually can look like that’s realistic in the life of teens and older kids.
Julie Church (35:23):
It could be breakfast too, don’t forget it could be breakfast, especially on a weekend, and it could be real late 9:00 PM get the steak off the grill. Totally. Okay. Especially with teenagers, they don’t care. But I think just, and it can be occasional, don’t feel any pressure. Don’t have guilt If you’re feeling like, gosh, that never happens in my family right now. It is very occasional. And yeah, we still use that language like we’re having a family meal today. Yes. I need you all here. Just have a little bit more respect of that time.
Kara Bazzi (35:55):
Yeah, that’s awesome. So I would say maybe we could sum up the main ideas of this episode for the listeners is that as our kids get more independent, let’s work on trusting our kids, letting go, embracing the structure that we can bring by having food available or having money available for your kids to purchase food. Having that food access and shooting for some family meals, but letting go of guilt if it’s not perfectly happening every night at a particular time. Any other themes? Did I hit that, Julie?
Julie Church (36:34):
Yeah, I think the only thing that I would want to emphasize is that there’s, as we continue to observe and learn about, our teenagers, allow there to be conversations about it too, so that then they can truly have some of your guidance and wisdom or support. So just know that you are, as a parent, we as parents still are supporters to them in this phase.
Kara Bazzi (36:58):
Right. Great. Well, thanks for having this conversation. It was fun. We’re fully in this stage, you and I, and again, if you are interested in hearing from Julie and I around relationship to food and relationship with movement, we do have the body talk that you can find on the Great Conversations website and that again is for parents of, it’s kind of geared towards parents of nine to 12 year olds and it has some great info in there. Thanks for being with us. If you’re interested in Opal and want to learn more, please visit us at opal food and body.com. Thanks to David Bazzi for editing. Aaron Davidson for the Appetite’s Original music, and we’ll see you next time. I.
