Fitness, movement and sport spaces continue to be saturated with diet culture rhetoric and belief systems that disrupt our innate connection, wisdom and joy to movement and our bodies. Diet culture is rooted in social justice issues where movement and sport spaces are not inclusive of all bodies and walks of life, particularly those who are most marginalized. Yet the story doesn’t stop here. More and more folks are recognizing the harmful messaging and practices and are doing it differently! Meng Wang, a dietitian and yoga instructor at Opal, and Ashley Davies, co-founder of Club Seattle Run Division (CSRD) are two of these change-makers– disrupting the “normal” practices in mighty ways! Listen in to this episode of The Appetite as Kara Bazzi, Opal’s Director of the Exercise + Sport program, has a conversation with Meng and Ashley that will give inspiration and encouragement that we can all make meaningful change.
Links:
Find Ashley Davies @dreambig_davies
Find Club Seattle Run Division @run_csrd
Book: Deconstructing the Fitness Industrial Complex (Edited by Justice Roe Williams, Roc Rochon and Lawrence Koval)
Book: The Body Liberation Project (Chrissy King)
Opal’s Stretch Your Learning is monthly for anyone who has a desire to create more inclusive movement spaces
To Learn more about Opal:
@opalfoodandbody
@opal.movement
Thank you to our team…
Editing by David Bazzi
Music by Aaron Davidson: https://soundcloud.
Sound engineering by Ayesha Ubayatilaka at Jack Straw Studios
Transcription by Rev.com
Kara Bazzi (00:07):
Hello and welcome to the Appetite, a podcast brought to you by Opal Food and Body Wisdom, an eating disorder treatment clinic in Seattle, Washington. It is a podcast about all things food, body movement, and mental health. I’m Kara Bazzi, co-founder, clinical director, and the director of the Exercise and Sport program here at Opal as well as your host for today. On today’s episode, I will be having a discussion with one of Opal’s dieticians and yoga instructor Meng Wang and Ashley Davies, who is the co-founder of Club Seattle Run division. Meng and Ashley are both leaders in fitness and sport spaces that center inclusion in their practices. They are two people I deeply respect and I feel inspired by the way they help cast a vision for how to create a culture of inclusion, which is so desperately needed. I can’t wait for the ways that we’ll all learn from them today. So I would love to start by asking each of you to share a bit more about who you are, your sailing identities and life experiences that have led to your passion around creating inclusive movement spaces.
Meng Wang (01:13):
Hi Kara. Happy to be here. So my salient identities are that I am a cisgendered female in a thin body. I’m also a first generation immigrant to the US who is neurodivergent. Some of my life experiences that contribute to this passion around creating more inclusive movement spaces are that I first came to the US when I was four years old and in that earlier part of my life I was more of in that survival mode. My family didn’t have a lot, even though my parents were highly educated, they had low income, low paying jobs for a while, and so there wasn’t that typical white American family focus on sports from a really young age. We also moved around a lot and my first memories with organized sports happened after I moved to Hong Kong around the sixth grade I excelled quite a bit in swimming and running and weird British sports like netball.
(02:23):
And then I came back to the US in high school and I really wanted to continue that focus on sports, but I just didn’t feel like I fit into the culture in the same way that I did before. And because I’ve moved around so much, I spent a big part of my life trying to blend in and trying to fit in, especially into that dominant American sports narrative. And I think to this day that’s still something I am grappling with and just that kind of feeling that I need to prove myself in some way that I’m just as capable and just as belonging in these spaces. And so in doing, in trying to achieve that at times my relationship with sports became quite disordered. I became a certified yoga teacher about eight years ago and that’s the only form of movement that I’ve felt more at home with. And that’s even with kind of the toxic movement spaces that around those communities that I have been a part of unfortunately. So that’s some context for where I’m at. I think it’s an ever evolving thing and my passion around creating inclusive movement spaces stems from wanting to give younger versions of myself, that sense of belonging that I wish I had more of and continue to search
Kara Bazzi (03:52):
For. Yeah, thanks. That’s really helpful to hear more of your context. And then what about you, Ashley? What would you offer to us?
Ashley Davies (04:02):
Thanks, Kara. It’s great to be here and to be alongside Meng. So I identify as a black female. I’m a new mother, also a bonus mom and a wife and a community leader. My relationship with sport began say in middle school growing up I was the person who was not very athletic, just kind of dabbled in everything and for the enjoyment of it grew up in what from a society standpoint is considered a larger body and so navigated movement in that body alongside other kids in what I would consider smaller bodies, didn’t have much awareness of it was still really focused on the fun and freedom of movement as a child, as I really hope all children can enjoy movement in that way. But as I got older, recognized that that certain bodies were valued differently in movement spaces were talked about differently and I became hyper aware of that which led to an eating disorder when I was in late middle school.
(05:28):
And from that point on, my relationship with movement and sport was one that was highly disordered. My relationship with food was highly disordered and throughout high school continued to navigate what it meant to be part of a sport and some of the really positive aspects of a sport. You learn teamwork, you learn some level of responsibility, you build friendships while also having this internal dialogue that felt super limiting and very stressful. And so once I got a little bit older, finished school and competitive running during the time that I was in high school and college and entered into other forms of movement, like fitness classes, recognize that a lot of the ways that classes were held I felt like continued to promote and perpetuate so much harm. I was at a really good place at that point in time with my body and the way I was thinking about and talking about my body to myself and to others.
(06:50):
And so it was at that point that I wanted to dive deeper into movement spaces to show up in a way that I could help not only people in those spaces really enjoy the freedom of movement without the stress and the anxiety of thinking about their body, but also help other movement instructors see what it looks like to teach a class to lead a space with movement and freedom at top of mind rather than things like aesthetics. And so since I’ve been in Seattle, had the opportunity to start a running group with some good friends of mine and everything that we do in that space is really targeted towards freedom of movement, the beginner, the joy and the experience. And so really happy to have this conversation and to continue to broadcast how important this topic is.
Kara Bazzi (07:54):
Well, we’re all in for a treat. I hope you are already feeling that as a listener of just hearing from these two people that have different lived experience, different backgrounds and have done a lot of work in this area of how can we create this change to make our spaces more inclusive, more welcoming for all bodies and really coming from a place of passion and intention. So you both are alluding to the work of inclusion in what you are centering from your lived experiences and what you’re hoping for in the future and what you’re engaged in currently. And we know that that work of inclusion is embedded in social justice work. Justice Roe Williams in his book Deconstructing the Industrial Fitness Complex, which is a fantastic book and we’ll have in the show notes writes that meeting bodies where they are at is a social justice framework.
(08:52):
How would the two of you describe the social justice framework related to movement in sports spaces and say more, I know you just kind of started speaking about that, but what are ways you’re currently engaging in that work through movement? And maybe we could start with you Ashley, as you were talking about the cs, it’s acronym, CSRD. I could also just say I’ve gotten to participate in it and it’s a beautiful thing as a longtime runner to be in that space and see the difference that Ashley and her co-founder are making in how they’re changing the way of doing that sports space. So
Ashley Davies (09:30):
Yeah, this is a big one for me and in thinking about meeting bodies where they’re at, I just want to acknowledge in so many other ways of life that is also a guiding pillar of how we frame things. So thinking about in schools and the way we meet the needs of the way we meet the needs of students where they are. And so much of movement spaces for some reason seems to operate outside the frameworks that we have really tried to build in other areas of society and that needs to change. So some of the things that are top of mind to me around this and meeting people where they’re at big things are thinking about the people represented in any space. When someone walks into a space, do they see themselves? Do they see themselves in the space? And if they don’t, are there ways that you can help them visualize themselves even if there isn’t someone like them?
(10:31):
Also thinking about the way that we promote and hold up certain types of identities in certain spaces. Who are the people? What are the things that we deem as valuable or talk about as good talk about as bad? These labels that we give that are all throughout the wellness industry and trying to remove those labels and show a diversity and talk about a diversity of experiences levels, and also just understandings of where people are. And so those are some of the big things that we try to do within our space. We try to welcome new people, call out where they are within their movement journey and acknowledge that no matter where they are, they’re welcome and it’s a valid place to start or to come back to or to be.
Meng Wang (11:35):
I think Ashley so well encapsulated so many parts of that whole idea of meeting people where they are, even though I’ve only been to CSRD one time, that is exactly how it feels and it is truly a feeling more than any action or anything you can say. It is that feeling that you belong that is so rare in other communities. I would really just agree with everything Ashley said about shifting that dominant voice that attempts to determine what forms of movement, what intensities of movement count, and that ultimately continues to pressure people and control them to be disconnected from their bodies. And just to share briefly more recent space, I’ve personally felt this passion in is in the outdoors. That’s a space that I think definitely lacks diversity. It’s a space that I’ve both felt unwelcome in and it brings me so much joy and so I don’t want that feeling of not being welcome or not necessarily belonging to stop me from engaging with it. So that’s an area that I am personally and currently striving to find more of that community and safety within.
Kara Bazzi (12:59):
Maybe as a follow-up question, Ashley, would you, and because I’ve been at C-C-S-R-D, maybe share with the listeners that kind of specifically what your ritual is and your practice is around that beginning of the time when everyone meets up and what you’re doing when you’re welcoming the new folks. Just to put a little bit of specificity of what that actually looks like if someone is to walk into the space.
Ashley Davies (13:27):
Definitely, and I’ll also say that we have some ways of which we operate and those also evolve over time as we test out things, as we get more people, as we see the diversity of need that exists, we are constantly thinking about how we meet that need right to the point about how we continue to show up for people and meet them where they are. That also means that you need to evolve your practice, which you don’t always see within movement spaces. So some of our rituals around how we operate, we have a standard three and five mile run, but we’ve expanded that to essentially say people can do anything from zero to five miles and we get people who will also come and walk. We have a specific walk route, but they’re also welcome to walk some other distance. They’re also welcome to run some combination of run, walk any distance within that time period.
(14:33):
That five Mile just kind of gives us that cap so such that we can keep the community to together. It’s that period of time that allows people to stay no matter how much they’re running or walking or however way they’re showing up. We also new people at the beginning of every run, and so that means we ask anyone who’s new to raise their hand and then we call them up to the front of the group and we ask them for their name, where they are from, where they call home, and then where they’re situated in Seattle. That also just gives others a few points of potential connection so that if they see this new person, they have something that they may have in common or some conversation starter, just a way to engage and help wrap around and welcome someone new. We always talk about, especially as adults, it’s really hard to do something new, to show up in a space, in a new space with new people, especially in Seattle. So anything that we can do to help people feel welcome and feel like a space is more accessible is something that we’re always going to try to continue to layer on to the way we operate. And then as far as when people come back, we are there to welcome people, clapping them in, encouraging them and waiting till the last walker or runners back before we close up.
Kara Bazzi (16:06):
And then there’s waters and Capri Suns and yeah, very good vibes at the end. Yes. I also think coming from not having participated in any running groups before, also the ritual of when you reach the halfway point, everyone stops and waits for all the runners to come to the halfway point. We take a picture and then we head back and another way of centering community and connection and not centering just the performance of the run, so to speak. Right.
Ashley Davies (16:41):
Yeah, that’s a huge piece and thank you for mentioning that is a staple of our weekly run.
Kara Bazzi (16:48):
Very cool. Now bringing it to how the two of you know each other, well, I know you a lot of the introductions here have been through Opal, and so although Opal is primarily a treatment center that offers higher level of care treatment, we also look for opportunities to bring our mission to the community in practical and accessible ways, including what we do here with the podcast. But one of the community offerings we have is called Stretcher Learning. It’s a free monthly virtual gathering for fitness instructors, coaches and others who teach or want to teach in movement spaces and intentionally want to make their practices more inclusive. And so we started this back in March of 2021 and currently Ashley and Ming are co-facilitating these monthly conversations, so I am excited for them to share a bit more about Stretcher Learning, starting with how you would describe your vision and purpose for this monthly meeting.
Meng Wang (17:47):
I would say the vision is to be a part of that cultural shift around toxicity in movement spaces. So that bigger picture idea to not continue that cycle that we all know so well that happens in our communities, to not reward folks for doing what actually may be disordered or validating thin bodies to continue just being in that cycle of the dominant narrative. I would say a purpose is to create community. That’s I think what it always goes back to a community, a space, a shared learning space to hear each other out, maybe have some uncomfortable conversations and we want to be able to provide both the more subjective conversations and discussions and processing around different topics and the more objective takeaways so that these skills and ideas can be applied out there in a really tangible way.
Kara Bazzi (18:56):
Cool. Ashley, is there anything you’d add
Meng Wang (18:58):
To that?
Ashley Davies (18:59):
The only thing I think I would add just from my perspective as a goal from this space and my thoughts about this space, I had the opportunity to be in the space as a participant before helping co-facilitate. And my first time in the space I left feeling like, why isn’t everyone here? Why isn’t everyone here having this conversation? The idea that people can be in these spaces where they have so much power, I’m going to name it, they have power over others, those who lead movement spaces and not continue to work on the way they guide and people the way they talk about bodies, the way they break down some of these, again, toxic, we use powerful words because this is the level of issue we have within our spaces and it doesn’t make sense to talk softly or to sugarcoat or to find other language. A lot of these spaces are still very toxic. And so anyone who leads in these spaces should be required to continue to learn and develop in these ways that we’re talking about and discussing within our monthly stretcher learning Shameless plug.
Kara Bazzi (20:31):
And maybe, yeah, would either of you be able to offer particular moment in a stretcher learn or conversation that you had that felt poignant or important to highlight? So listeners really get a feel for why you can say that so strongly, Ashley, these are necessary conversations to have. So can you maybe each of you share a part of a conversation or something that was acknowledged or discussed in one of these monthly meetings so that coaches and fitness folks can really get more of a sense of what you mean by that?
Ashley Davies (21:09):
I have two quick things that come to mind related to some of our conversation. One, I remember a conversation that we had about coaches themselves who are still working through some of their own body image issues or some of their own disordered thoughts and how certain things either trigger them with certain clients or people within their classes or how that sometimes becomes a blocker for them to teach in a different way. And that was such a reflective moment for a coach to come into the space and say, I recognize that I still struggle and I’m not being able to show up the best I can because of that. And then I would say a more recent conversation we had exploring the way that we talk about bodies and the fact that we aren’t often as mindful as we can be, we show up with the identity of well, I’m the fun coach, I’m the funny coach, rather than I’m the social justice coach, I’m the body liberation coach, right? I’m the coach that’s going to put people first around all their needs, not just their fitness needs.
Meng Wang (22:36):
Yeah, I remember those moments and they were definitely highlights for me too. Sometimes we try to bring in certain themes that we feel like are relevant to different areas of creating more inclusive spaces. Recently we had a conversation around rest and the importance of rest and how the idea that if you don’t rest before things will catch up to you, your body will tell you and it will make you rest. And just the importance of incorporating that in really intentional ways, even in movement spaces, that you’re not just pushing on one side, that you are equally handling these things and naming that and role modeling the importance of it.
Kara Bazzi (23:27):
That’s great. This makes me think a bit about Chrissy King and the Body Liberation Project book is another movement provider who is really trying to change these practices and has done a remarkable job of that. And that was written this book and in her book does recount ways that she had upheld like a lot of folks, diet, culture and her fitness journey before she made those changes when she shared in her book, if you scroll all the way back on my Instagram page, you’ll see that I used to post before and after pictures, something I now am vehemently opposed to. It doesn’t matter how to try to spin it if before and after pictures feature a larger and smaller body. We are reinforcing the narrative that smaller bodies are more desirable, more healthy, more preferable when coaches and trainers post before and after photos of their clients or of themselves.
(24:21):
It’s meant as a marketing tool to garner more clients to prove that they can also help you achieve the ideal body. So again, she’s offering another example of this learning another way of changing the script of doing this differently. Are there other things that, other examples that you would offer the listeners around the learning that can come that is about really changing that script and moving beyond those very normative diet culture messaging? I think to what you’re saying me, even with the rest, the no pain, no gain, that kind of messaging, trying to disrupt that and really highlight and then be intentional about the value of rest. So I’m wondering if other examples come to mind.
Meng Wang (25:08):
Yeah, I think there are so many ways fitness coaches, instructors, they can learn in many different ways. I think I do hope to offer tangible ways they can make their clients feel like they can show up in a way that honors their bodies without that toxic pressure of the competitiveness, the comparisons and the shame. I hope for folks to be more aware of other people’s possible mental health struggles. You just never know what people are going through kind of things to look out for language and verbiage that may be bringing harm to someone without any intention that’s different than how you’re impacting someone and affecting someone, especially someone who might be struggling with body image or eating concerns. You just never know. And I think this is a conversation that’s just not normalized and should be talked about in the same way that we are talking about food and body in the other direction.
Ashley Davies (26:14):
Yeah. I would also add one of the things that we’ve also had the opportunity to talk about in the space is about the way we offer choices. And we had a conversation in one of our monthlies where we talked about the difference between the concept of a traditional yoga space versus a traditional more high intensity space. And the ideas in these spaces, you’re offered choices. The focus is like do what your body needs. Whereas in some of these other traditionally tagged as high intensity spaces, limited choices, things are categorized as a modification if you can’t do something a certain way. And oftentimes people underestimate how powerful our words are. Right. I also talked in the beginning about the fact that people leading these spaces have power. They have power. People look at them and see them as authorities in the space. And with that comes a lot of responsibility and a really great opportunity to help people and the industry change the narrative, help individuals change the narrative about what they think they need to do or how they need to show up, help the industry change the amount of offerings and the conversation around how we ask people to show up and what we provide for people in a space.
(27:51):
And so more tactically, thinking about offering choices no matter what the form of movement space you are in, I talked about our running group and the fact that we offer the opportunity to walk and then the conversation about modifications. How do we encourage and celebrate the many different ways that people’s bodies are moving without putting labels on them, without categorizing them into good and bad, high or low? How do we celebrate people moving in lots of different ways rather than just celebrating the high intensity output? How do we encourage people to move and not label what counts and what doesn’t count, as Mang said? And so those are some specific things that we talk about and ways that we try to workshop change that movement leaders can have within their space.
Kara Bazzi (28:55):
Yeah, that’s great. So I’m going to switch gears a bit here. I’m thinking of the listeners who don’t identify as coaches or instructors, but have, most people have experiences being a participant either in sports spaces or in fitness classes. M Camelia yoga instructor who also authored an essay in the book I mentioned earlier, deconstructing the Fitness Industrial Complex poses a series of questions to consider for someone interested in challenging the status quo of these spaces. And a couple of the questions she posed were, if you take a yoga fitness class with an instructor, do their instruction offer spaciousness for self-exploration in honoring your own body mind’s needs? So that’s kind of a nod to what you just said, Ashley. And another question, when you say yes to something, is it because you have a sense that it’s something you’re supposed to do based on external sources of authority or internalizations from dominant culture? And in that essay, I want to say there was 20 or so questions that this person offered to do, some of that discerning. And so I wanted to pose that question to the both of you of what are other good questions that we can ask ourselves to discern about that fitness or sports space? What are the things we can be looking for?
Meng Wang (30:17):
Yeah, I feel like I can answer this question well, because I think I have been that more toxic instructor who did buy into diet culture at some point and did buy into toxic fitness culture in the past. I think a lot of us are guilty of that. And that is just the way that is how it works, how the dominant narrative works is that it pulls you in. And I think it’s just unfortunately all very common. First of all, if the studio has a green juice bar or a gluten-free treat section, then I say stay away. Nothing against juice. But I think it’s like the messaging, right? It’s the messaging of that. What are you trying to say with that? And so that’s kind of surface level. What are you looking for aesthetically, physically? Logistically? I think it’s hard to know because I think everyone, I feel like everyone is seeming to say that they’re welcoming to all bodies nowadays.
(31:19):
That is kind of the thing that a lot of institutions are saying, but a lot of what goes on feels like it can be pretty subtle, which doesn’t make it any less harmful. It’s just harder to call it out. And so one kind of point I would make is to ask yourself, is the instruction pressuring, do you feel pressured to go against your natural instinct with movement? Maybe you’re pushing yourself past a limit that you’re not comfortable with or a boundary that you’re not comfortable with just because everyone else is. So that’s not always something that’s very salient or being able to picked out. It’s more of the, it’s a feeling that you feel that you’re uncomfortable with. I would say also you can trust yourself if you feel ashamed or if you feel uncomfortable in any way, then you’re probably right. I love that.
Ashley Davies (32:17):
Yeah, those are great. Me, I would say. And part of this was also encompassed in the quote that you shared, Kara, but the term spaciousness, I often talk about the physical setup of a space, the physical setup of a room. Do people feel like they can enter that space and feel comfortable in their body? Is there physically enough space for them to do what you ask them to do? Is there physically enough space for them to also feel comfortable, say they can do it, but do they feel comfortable doing that? And as a participant, when you come into a space, do you feel encouraged and empowered to move your body in the way that you want to at that point in time, recognizing that people at different times in a week, in a year, in a lifetime may want to move their body in different ways.
(33:22):
And so to Meng’s acknowledgement of how she used to show up, I also recognize that for myself in the time that I had coached in the beginning, I was in a space where it was very push, push, push, go, go, go. And I had to ask myself, how can I allow space for people who don’t want to push, right? Who just want to come to a space and be around other people. They want to listen to some good music. They want someone who is certified to teach them a safe way to move their body. They don’t necessarily want to work to the point of exhaustion. And as a participant, asking yourself, do I feel like I can do what I need to do for my body today in this space? And if it’s a no, is that a conversation that maybe you can have with the instructor or the person leading the space, or maybe it’s, I’m going to find another space because we commented these spaces oftentimes paying, or oftentimes in the midst of our busy schedule, the last thing we should have to do is feel like we show up to this space and we can’t get what we need out of that space.
Kara Bazzi (34:52):
I actually appreciate you naming the payment piece. We recently had a client who was talking about the challenge of just the reality of that challenge of if you’ve paid now for this set of classes or this for this particular movement experience and how, again, then that might impact someone not advocating for what they need or leaving a space because of the financial repercussion. And that maybe brings me back to this question of that you mentioned before, Ashley, about the power piece, the power that the coach or fitness instructor holds. And as a participant, I wonder if both of you have ideas about how we can empower, empower the participant in this experience. What can a participant do to help create more inclusive spaces? So yes, a participant might have the option to leave the class and change, take their money elsewhere, for example, or take their body elsewhere. And that can be feedback that’s given about a space not being welcoming. But what are other ways, if somebody wants to create change by not leaving the space, what are things you would encourage listeners to do when you’re coming face to face with something that is does not feel good? From an inclusion standpoint?
Ashley Davies (36:15):
I would encourage a participant to give the feedback. As movement coaches and leaders, we should want to be better. We should want to continue to make progress in how we’re serving the diversity of body and peoples that show up to our spaces. And so even if it may be difficult to hear, we need to hear it, right? That’s how we continue to improve. So I would encourage a participant to also be really specific. Be specific about what you felt like did not in your body. And that can be a really helpful way for the person leaving the space to think tactically about how they can make that change.
Meng Wang (37:09):
Yeah, I would say the feedback part is the most important thing a participant can do. As someone who has taught fitness classes and been on the other side, being an instructor, it is a part of your training to be able to take feedback and apply the feedback that is literally your job. And so maybe there is an instructor there in that space that you feel a little more comfortable with that you do see kind of putting out the message that I am a person who, it’s important to me to have an inclusive space. And so it’s like, okay, well I know this is what you’re all about. How does this align or not align with what you are saying you are? I think that is the most important thing you can do. Whether that is writing it through email or a Yelp review or just putting your words out there. I think it is hard to do it because it can feel like you’re the only one. It is easy to feel like a little bit alone. So maybe if there are even other guests, other participants there who maybe you see that also feel uncomfortable joining forces so that you don’t feel alone.
Kara Bazzi (38:30):
Thank you. I know we’re nearing the end of this episode, and this wasn’t something I planned, but I would like to offer both of you specific positive feedback. I’ve been able to be a participant in both of your spaces. So Ashley, starting with you. I would love to give you positive, specific feedback about how as somebody who is incredibly introverted and has been nervous, showing up to CSRD, not knowing anybody will I see a familiar face is always a question, who am I going to talk to? I have that anxiety every time I show up. And the practices that you offer that are those rituals that are there every week I walk away every time meeting somebody new, talking to somebody, feeling lit up, feeling like there is connection. And as somebody who’s probably a little least represented in my age, I am getting to talk to 20 some year olds, and they’re so nice and welcoming to me, and I don’t feel like I do feel like I belong, even though I don’t see as much representation in my age.
(39:51):
But that’s because of the rituals you’ve created in Meng. I’ve gotten to have the privilege of being a participant in Meng’s yoga group at Opal. And as again, my own body needs and my lack of flexibility. I mean having main hand me the different equipment and the bolsters and all of the things. I’m not very familiar with yoga, but I felt like my body, it wasn’t. And again, that was different than other people maybe in the class, but it didn’t feel like it was less than, I did not feel any sort of, I felt seen. I felt like my body needs were noticed and that I was provided then with things and instruction of where I could put them to help it be more comfortable in my body. And that really stood out to me in that experience. So very, I just want to give examples too, of shout outs of specific things that both you have both offered to me as a participant that have felt really inclusive and meaningful.
(40:53):
So, okay, I think we’re going to wrap up there. You guys are both such amazing people. I’m so glad the listeners are getting to hear from you and hopefully planting some seeds, getting inspired. Knowing now about Stretcher Learning, this is open to all people that are coaches and instructors. The information about how to participate in that is on our Instagram accounts through Opal Movement and Opal Food and Body. So if you want to participate in those, please check those out. And also, if you’re interested in learning more about what was referenced in today’s episode, please look at our show sheets and we’ll have it there. And if you are interested in Opal and want to learn more, please visit us at opalfoodand body.com. Thanks to David Bazzi for editing. Jack Straw Cultural Center for Sound Engineering and Aaron Davidson for the Appetite Original Music. See you next time.
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